villainsfandomcom-20200225-history
Talk:Syndrome
He is NOT a Complete Monster! Stop adding him to this category! He is anything but a Complete Monster. He doesn't qualify one bit. He has a very sympathetic backstory that balances his misdeeds and he doesn't even do anything heinous. Stop adding him.9Darthmaul (talk) 21:51, October 27, 2013 (UTC) Yes he is. He is one of the darkest Pixar Villains ever because he is a murderer, a child abuser & emotionless traitor who only cares of becoming a superhero. Also note that some villains with tragic backstories have become complete monsters out of their tragedy just to complete their goals. No matter how many times you state this, he is, always will & will be a complete monster. (Swoobatman (talk) 03:13, March 27, 2014 (UTC)) He was by all means a Complete Monster. He murdered almost all of the superheroes just so he can pretend to be one. He attempted to kill Mr. Incredibles family by firing missles even after learning there were children on the plane; after which he laughed and taunted him about their deaths. He allowed Mr. Incredible to kill Mirage after she just selflessly saved him from the former. His tragic backstory doesn't matter, either. You're saying it's justified to pretty much commit superhero genocide just because he couldn't be a sidekick? He was easily the darkest Pixar villain of them all and a sadistic, mass-murdering psychopath. (DarkLord6414 (talk) I am in agreement with this assessment. TV Tropes not considering him one is just proof that they're not always right. Evidently they consider Syndrome's backstory to be more sympathetic then Darth Bane and Darth Zannah's, which is laughable to say the least. Part of the reason why I don't go there anymore. Overseer80 (talk) 11:48, March 27, 2014 (UTC) Why is this even up for debate? He's inarguably a complete monster, a blind man could see that. Just because he was turned down by Mr. Incredible doesn't justify him for attempting to cause genocide (kill all the heroes). Fireworks888 (talk) 02:49, March 28, 2014 (UTC) It's not a debate really. It's just us putting in our two cents. And as to a blind man being able to see it, TV Tropes evidently doesn't see it that way. But then that's part of the reason why I don't go there anymore. Overseer80 (talk) 11:36, March 28, 2014 (UTC) He had a valid Freudian Excuse when he was ditched by Mr. Incredible, which is why TV Tropes removed him from their list. The excuse would've worked... you know, until he slaughtered a bunch of superheroes purely out of spite. Like Lotso, he has an excuse, but their actions remove any sort of sympathy the audience would have had. Then he keeps going, hence the reason why I never removed the CM category because he is one. Yes, the one who keeps removing these categories actually agrees with the Monster sentiment with Syndrome. Same thing goes for Hopper, one briefly mentioned positive trait is snuffed out by his vile actions. [[User:LostGod2000|'THE DREADED']][[User talk:LostGod2000|''' ONE AWAKENS ]] 20:49, March 28, 2014 (UTC) What you just said above actually confirms that his Freudian Excuse ISN'T valid. Again, this is why I don't go on TV Tropes anymore. This site has a less draconian and nonsensical way of looking at things, and that's why I prefer it. Overseer80 (talk) 22:00, March 28, 2014 (UTC) Syndrome really is a complete monster & also please stop removing the category already. Note that some villains with really tragic backstories have become really evil due to that they can't stand their tragic defeat in the past, for example Lotso who was one of my favorite CMs. Also to the users who keep on removing CM, please learn to REALLY find out which villain is a monster & who isn't, for example the Elfen Lied bullies. About TV Tropes usage, try to at least balance the usage of it to at least 1/2 since this wiki is not fully TT itself. (Swoobatman (talk) 00:37, April 7, 2014 (UTC)). That, and TV Tropes doesn't always make the best of decisions when it comes to who's a monster or not. robinsonbecky@bellsouth.net (talk) 23:11, April 22, 2014 (UTC)Robinsonbecky The Incredibles is considerably dark for a Disney film...and he's not far and away the most evil villain in the film. User:Pigletisbacon 18:03 July 4, 2014 *Insert J Jonah Jameson Laugh* What? He is ABSOLUTELY the most evil villain in the film. Any bad things his minions and robots do are only because they're working for him. He is the mastermind, just as any Big Bad is the mastermind behind the actions of the flunkies. And as to the Incredibles being dark for a Disney film, so what? If anything that only makes his CM status more earned. Syndrome is a Complete Monster. No ifs, ands, or buts. Overseer80 (talk) 03:32, July 5, 2014 (UTC) It's not like they didn't choose to follow him out of their own free will. User:Pigletisbacon 20:48 July 6, 2014 Really? You are relly including hundreds, maybe even thousands of minor henchman as being monsters? Many villains who are complete monsters have henchmen, and they often have their own ulterior reasons for following said villains. Heck, half of those henchmen don't even have names, and some ended up being killed anyway. Mirage, while what she did was wrong, she ultimately redeemed herself at the end of the film. Syndrome is a monster, because he was the one who orchestrated the entire superhero genocide scheme, and therefore all the events in the film happen because of him. And seriously, since when is a Disney movie considered too dark to have a complete monster/ If you look on TV Tropes you have villains like Frollo and the Horned King who are listed as being monsters despite being from rather dark films. I mean seriously, Pigletisbacon, what's your major malfunction? robinsonbecky@bellsouth.net (talk) 02:05, July 7, 2014 (UTC)Robinsonbecky Hence my insertion of the J. Jonah Jameson laugh from Spider-Man 2 for my reaction. I think it was warranted. Overseer80 (talk) 04:09, July 7, 2014 (UTC) You're J. Jonah laugh is appreciated, Overseer. The points you bring up are abysmal, Piglet. The entire wiki can agree with me. The Incredibles may be one of the darkest films in the Pixar Animated Canon, and you know why? Syndrome. He negates his own petty little Freudian "Excuse" and that stuff about him not being evil enough? Have you even watched the film? I think genocide, launching missiles at a plane with children on board, and letting your henchgirl, who by the way isn't close to being as evil as Syndrome, die, then unleashing a hero-killing death machine on the city makes you arguably worse than Lotso. I went there. Syndrome is an unforgivable bastard. All his henchman are working under his orders. They kill because its his will. Have a nice day. [[User:LostGod2000|'''THE DREADED]][[User talk:LostGod2000|''' ONE AWAKENS ']] 04:45, July 7, 2014 (UTC) ALL OF YOU. You don't have to mock or mistreat a user just because he doesn't agree with you or to prove your point. Let this be a warning to everyone. Welcome to your doom! 18:43, July 7, 2014 (UTC) No mistreatment that I can see. We reserve the right to disagree, and also to point out that his arguments are ridiculous. That's not insulting him personally. It's insulting his ''arguments, ''which frankly deserve to be insulted and mocked because they're that terrible. When you say certain things, you have to expect a certain kind of reaction. I've been treated much worse for saying far less offensive things than what has been said here. Just saying. Overseer80 (talk) 01:39, July 8, 2014 (UTC) I was just trying to say that most Incredibles villains are rather dark for a Disney film in their own right...and that he wans't the only reason why the movie was dark...I'm sorry if you thought that I was going crazy... 23:01 July 8, 2014 Pigletisbacon It's also possible that the writers intended for his backstory to be sympathetic, as they allowed Mirage to perform a Heel Face Turn for not very much less. 14:55 July 11, 2014 Pigletisbacon ...that makes zero sense. Someone else becoming good doesn't make HIM sympathetic. Honestly this (like most discussions I have here) is getting really old and feeling like a serious waste of time. Overseer80 (talk) 15:26, July 15, 2014 (UTC) I'm saying that they let Mirage pull off a Heel Face Turn even though she was a willing accessory to the numerous deaths of superheroes... And they never really showed the superhero deaths onscreen...of course, there's the Operation Kronos database...but that's about it really... Pigletisbacon 12:56 August 2, 2014 I feel that he was played for laughs the whole time. It's been a few years since I last saw this movie, but I think one of the heroes didn't show revulsion, hatred, or fear. NotReadyIma (talk) 02:17, October 6, 2014 (UTC) Syndrome was comedic. That does not mean he was played for laughs; he was still a serious threat. Also, Mr. Incredible caused him to get sucked into the jet engine when he tossed that car at him in the film's climax. robinsonbecky@bellsouth.net (talk) 02:57, October 6, 2014 (UTC)Robinsonbecky once a villain becomes genocidal they are almost always a CM UNLESS they have some redeeming factor - and let me be clear here, you need a heck of a lot of redeeming factor(s) to remotely escape the Moral Horizon genocide (even attempted) brings with it.. Magneto barely escaped CM status in this regard because A) he had a truly tragic backstory and B) he honestly is conflicted over the subject.. Syndrome does not seem to be very conflicted on wiping out an entire section of society and being rejected by your childhood hero does not remotely come close to being tragic enough to justify genocide Inferno Pendragon (talk) 03:06, October 6, 2014 (UTC) I see where you're going, Inferno. Magneto is a Jewish Holocaust survivor ''and ''a mutant, which justifies his genocide against humans and Nazis. NotReadyIma (talk) 01:40, October 9, 2014 (UTC) only partially, NotReady, even Magneto knows full-scale genocide of humanity would make him no better than a nazi himself (Mystique however lacks that and is thus arguably more "evil") - Magneto would likely be horrified by the actions of, let's say, Demona from Gargoyles (who wanted to wipe out every human on Earth) : genocide is absolute evil because it is wiping out families, generations etc.. if Syndrome truly was planning genocide he approaches CM status just by the concept of genocide (even tragic beings often become CM when they go genocidal.. look a Koba.. he was horribly mistreated yet when he began genocide he quickly went CM). Anyway.. that's how I view this matter : Syndrome is likely a CM because he wanted to wipe out an entire "race (aka superhumans) just because he was denied a childhood fantasy Inferno Pendragon (talk) 01:47, October 9, 2014 (UTC) Actually he is, Syndrome is one of the few Pixar villains I'd call a complete monster. Syndrome attempts genocide by luring supers to his island so he could slaughter them with his robots, Would happily try to murder women and young children (as shown when he fires homing missles at Mr. Incredibles families plane while the former is in captivity), Sic's one of his Omnidroids on a massive city to wreak wanton destruction (just so he could stop it and pretend to be a super hero) and above all he only cares about himself (even his henchwoman Mirage turns on him when he tries to kill off the incrdible family. Yes he was kind of humourous but his crimes were not played for laughs. Id say he makes it up there with Hopper and Lotso. Xmike920 19:23, February 18, 2015 (UTC) Hopefully this helps explain things: http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Zcooper95/Why_Hopper_and_Syndrome_are_Complete_Monsters The fact of the matter is that TV Tropes considers him not a Complete Monster, and therefore he cannot be labeled one. That's the way it goes on this wiki, is it not? So why the double standard for Syndrome, who I must point out is NOT as truly heinous as he could have been with what he had at his disposal. If he was, he would have killed the babysitter in order to take Jack Jack rather than just decieving her into giving him to him. DocColress (talk) 18:25, July 11, 2015 (UTC) He killed practically all the superheroes just so he can pretend to be one. He willingly launched missles at a plane when he's discovers it's piloted by Mr. Incredible's family in an attempt to kill them; even after learning that children were aboard the plane. He then sadistically taunted him and laughed after it's presumed they're dead. He nonchalantly allowed Mr. Incredible to kill Mirage after she just selflessly saved his life from him. That tragic backstory is completely irrelevant. Killing thousands of people in an attempt to pretty much commit superhero genocide isn't justified because he couldn't be a sidekick. He's the darkest Pixar villain ever and a Complete Monster. (Mastermind522 (talk) 07:03, September 6, 2015 (UTC)) ANd I'm gonna have to agree that Syndrome is without a doubt a CM. He shows no remorse for his actions despite his backstory. Rememember just because TV tropes doesn't list the villain in question, does '''NOT '''mean they are not a CM. Ngh93 (talk) 19:50, September 6, 2015 (UTC) Exactly being a comedic villain does not always diaqualify you from CM status same thing goes for McLeach from ''The Rescuers Down Under both are somewhat humorous and comedic, but their crimes are taken upon completly seriously and are played upon for no comedy. He meets all the criteria also and is roughly as heinous (and in some ways worse than Hopper and Lotso). Attempted genocide, Attempted slaughter of the heroes family (even after learning children were on board) then allowing Mr. Incredible to kill your own henchwoman in presumed revenge, and allowing one of your man killing robots to wreak wanton destruction on a populated city is more than enough to qualify him by the films standardsXmike920 (talk) 17:39, September 11, 2015 (UTC)Xmike920Xmike920 (talk) 17:39, September 11, 2015 (UTC) I agree 100% that Syndrome is a CM, but he's also pathetic. If he were to be a tragic villain, he wouldn't kill so many innocents and ALL heroes just because he didn't become one hero's partner. That would be the same as calling Cell harmless. If Syndrome was written sympatheticly, he would only try to kill Mr. Incredible, NOT his family, or every other hero, or the LIFE OF SO MANY INNOCENTS!!! That being said, Syndrome was just a psychopathic child you just can't get rid of once he knows you, and not becomming someone's partner is not enough to make someone a genocidal psychopath. DiabolicCade (talk) 14:33, September 11, 2015 (UTC) Nemesis? Shoudn't Syndrome be labelled a Nemesis, considering Mr. Incredible created an enemy in him, albeit indirectly? Also, I don't think he counts as an Outright Villain, since he was so convinced he was a hero. Also, when was it said he had a mental illness?Joe Devaney (talk) 09:02, July 1, 2015 (UTC) Please remove the (similar to Kick-:@#) thing. I would say Syndrome qualifies as a Nemesis. Since it was Mr. Incredible's refusal to make him his sidekick that motivated him to become a supervillain and get revenge. (Mastermind522 (talk) 10:08, October 14, 2015 (UTC)) New trivia thing to add I just came up with a thing to add to Syndrome's trivia. section Syndrome is somewhat similar to Powerpuff Girls villain Princess Morbucks as they both initially wanted to serve on their idol's side (Powerpuffs for Princess; Mr. Incredible for Syndrome), only for their idols to decline their offer. They both instead become their idols worst enemies. Tjhe trouble is I can't add this trivia fact cause the page is locked. Could you admins please add this triva fact to the Syndrome page? Thanks Ngh93 (talk) 20:06, July 21, 2015 (UTC) Complete Monster Alright, alright, alright. I will be respectful. I undertand that many of you think he is a CM, and I understand why. But, TV Tropes does not consider him a CM. I feel uncomfortable with listing ANY villain they deemed as not a CM... Just because TV Tropes doesn't have a villain listed doesn't mean they're right, their standards are so high it's scary. Empress Mitsuru (talk) 16:55, October 21, 2015 (UTC) He is a Complete Monster Okay, we are gonna settle this once and for all. I totally see why you guys think he is a Complete Monster and I understand why so many of you try to include him. And I agree TV Tropes acts hypocritically sometimes. That being said, we do too. We deemed Charles Muntz (who is very simillar if not nealry identitcal to Syndrome in crimes) and Turbo (who is infinitely worse than both of them) as not being CMs. It is irrational for us to include Syndrome but not these other two villains? I am waiting for rational long response and explanation. Thanks. 9Darthmaul (talk) 15:37, October 19, 2015 (UTC) Charles Muntz isn't even close to Syndrome's level, not to mention he has the excuse of being insane due to spending years in the wilderness, while Syndrome is just extremely petty. I do agree with you about Turbo though.Empress Mitsuru (talk) 16:55, October 21, 2015 (UTC) Muntz is not even close to Syndrome (Or Hopper or Lotso for that matter in terms of crimes and heinousness). He was driven mainly by paranoia and is not heinous enough. Turbo from Wreck It Ralph is more heinous than Muntz but still not heinous enough to become a monster.Xmike920 (talk) 16:34, October 22, 2015 (UTC)xmike920Xmike920 (talk) 16:34, October 22, 2015 (UTC) Muntz not heinous enough? What?! He is completetely like Syndrome if not worse in terms of heinoussness. They both committed genoicide (Syndrome against superheroes while Muntz against explorers) and they both attempted to murder kids (except that Muntz used much more painful means for a child to die as Syndrome merely wanted to blow up the plane while Muntz would throw a child from a blimp.) Not even close to Syndrome?! Think again. You do have a lefitimate point that he was driven by paranoia and went insane...9Darthmaul (talk) 19:22, October 22, 2015 (UTC) Muntz genocidal? He murdered explorers but that doesn't constitute genocide, and unlike Syndrome he actually has a valid Freudian excuse. Also Xmike20, I don't see how Turbo isn't heinous enough to be a monster, he destroys 2 worlds for attention and tries to force Ralph to watch Vanellope get killed by the Cy Bugs. Empress Mitsuru (talk) 14:55, October 24, 2015 (UTC) Valid Freudian Excuse? What do you mean? Being labeled a fraud isn't an excuse one bit. It is even lesser than Syndrome. If you mean being on a deserted island for a long time as an excuse and becoming insane, I will take it for granted. But if murdering explorers doesn't count as genoicide, how does murdering superheroes does? We have no proog who killed more people really.9Darthmaul (talk) 20:48, October 25, 2015 (UTC)